Saksan A2-Clubin jäsenet kiinnostuneita talviajokoulusta

[bretti_kivi]

Hello,
I'm a member of the German A2 club. Some members (and some English and Swedish ones, too) want to come over in February / March and practice winter driving.

I was thinking about using an Ajorharjoittelurata for the first session (theory, practice, passive safety) and the course finns do before they are allowed out.
We'll probably be close to 20 people with around 10 cars, mostly A2s. It will be a Saturday, as Sunday we'll try and book an ice track.

Any ideas where we could do this? Riihimäki would be good, but "we're closed at the weekend and we don't speak anything other than finnish"; the guys will get in to Vuosaari Saturday morning at 0700.

Ideas would be great....any A2 drivers want to join? ;)

[jasso]

The winters are today what they are here in south Finland - dark, moist and unpredictable. The fact is, if you want sure winter enviroments, you have to go to middle Finland and up. Every real ice/winter tracks below that are more or less at the mercy of lousy weather.

Our club used have winter driving days in Pertunmaa, under 100km north from Lahti, but past two years or so, the weather has been too unpredictable in that south. Pertunmaa's winter track is a real ice track on a lake, so if the ice hasn't had time to freeze enough, you obviosly can't drive on it.

I think our club's winter track day is now moved a bit more to north, about another 100km, to Joutsa. Joutsa's track is on a solid ground, so you don't have to worry about the thickness of the ice, but it's not a real ice track any more.

The change of February and March is usually the best time when considering the possible snow situation, so you can't choose a better time. I might well be that this winter the snow season in south once again is only those two months.


edit: I corrected the title's grammar a bit. Just to make it look nicer :)

[Heksa K]

Actually we're working on a club icetrackday way more up north than Joutsa this year, just to be on the safe side with weather conditions.

Last winter was exceptionally good regarding ice, and we managed to go out on a small local icetrack close to Tampere on 8 consecutive weekends starting from mid-January. Unfortunately no theory, just pure icetrack fun :)

[bretti_kivi]

thanks, my Finnish needs practice :D

I was out with another club three times last winter (with the camera) and it was very cool indeed. I suppose what we could do is "Säänvaraus" and go up north if necessary, towards Kuopio because I know it a little better - but not really well enough. Joutsa is on one of the routes I drive regularly in the summer: Lahti - Joutsa - Kangasniemi - Pieksämäki - Suonenjoki. Great roads, almost as good as Puumala - Sulkava or Sysmä - Kalkkinen.

I need to think about this. Any tips for something in Savo?

[Vieras]

For a basic level course of winter driving that you mentioned (i.e. what is needed for driving license in Finland), any of those "ajoharjoittelurata" would be OK. For instance Porvoo, Kirkkonummi or Vantaa. Regardless of the weather.

However, it ain't so fun, but more like: "Hey guys remember to push clutch pedal and avoid turning steering wheel too quickly", and then you drive ~30km/h, and wait, and again, and wait. I guarantee the track would be VERY slippery with studless tires, even if the winter was bad.

[jasso]

Those mandatory "slippery condition driving courses" are nowadays more of a joke. You go to track for some hours with tens of other cars and drivers, wait most of the time your turn and then get instructions like "and why your car didn't turn - that's because you drove too fast, drive slower now". The attitude is more like, we show you what is like to lose control of your car in slippery road if you drive too fast and do nothing, but we won't teach you to actually drive on it because it might turn you into to rally driver in public roads...

Honestly, they got nothing to do with teaching how to drive in slippery conditions - and especially how to gain control again after losing it.

And those "simulated slippery conditions" are more like soap on tarmac. It's no were near the real life winter slippery.

[A6tonen]

Honestly, they got nothing to do with teaching how to drive in slippery conditions

Not maybe teaching, but you will at least somehow feel what it's like to drive on slippery conditions.

Of course, it's not real though.

[bretti_kivi]

OK..... so what would you suggest?

The majority of them have no real clue how to deal with slippery conditions. They've heard of snow, they've seen it occasionally, but it's like inside Kehä I. Winter is wet and grey with occasional white stuff that disappears from the roads within a day or so.

The Swedes will have a lot more experience and that's fine; I've survived four winters here so far and am looking forward to this one. So there's two groups, and the numbers are 6:1 or so.

With this in mind, I thought that some theory would be nice (understeer, oversteer, ABS and its limitations, ESP, Slides, controllability, opposite lock, clutch) and then practice. I didn't want the practice arena to be Vitostie :D

Maybe I really should try and find a rallyschool?!

[arto s]

The rallyschool would be the best, no doubt, but the mandatory practice track is better than nothing. At least for the ones who've never driven on slippery conditions. If you want theory, you might find it from driving schools (might). Rent the track and hire a consultant. Dunno 'bout the prices..

Or then again you could just go for a track and just try out. That's how most of young Finns learn. =) Not doing that on Vitostie is definitely a good idea, though.

[jasso]

http://www.juhakankkunen.com/driving...y/en/index.php

Don't know if it's something your looking for and if it's the best place or is it just famous name and face. Based on what I've seen on tv and heard from other medias, it seems like a very good one. And you don't have to "sacrifice" your own cars if you want to learn to drive little "wilder" if some don't feel that comfortable to do it with their own cars.

But it's not in south or even in middle Finland and for sure it wont be the cheapest option...

I think it's more what you want it to be: exotic winter experience with touch to a rally world or just more like a club meating with the ability to drive on a snowy track and someone to teach.

[Mörssäri]

http://www.rrteam.fi

This is my friends rallyteams homepage. You should ask him, if he could arrange something. They have arranged many rallyschools too.

[bretti_kivi]

I don't know if this is OK, but I'm going to bring this up again...

We have a couple of people would could instruct if necessary, but I'd prefer a professional and so far, everyone is either busy or not interested.

We're now looking at Tahko / Kuopio; is there a jäärata in the area (apart from the one on the lake at tahko itself)?

thanks!

Bret

[JAP3]

We're now looking at Tahko / Kuopio; is there a jäärata in the area (apart from the one on the lake at tahko itself)?

The weather around here has been so warm lately, that lakes aren´t going to froze up in near future.
There´s no any snow in Kuopio so far.

Tahko and Audi usually present Audi´s winterdriving school in mid winter.